Curse

Bryant Again · Apr 24, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Because then I'm losing out obviously, plus it's not down to me to babysit people. No one held my hand when I was new. Everyone was trying to sell my non-max chaos axes for 5k claiming they were super rare etc...

So instead of helping them out in a matter that will more benefit them, you apply it in a matter that will benefit yourself?

Nonetheless you answered my question.

Chthon · Apr 24, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev HoaX

here is a way to find out if what you are asking is "right".

Would you like the action to happen to you?

Would you want everyone to repeat this action to everyone else, all the time?

Would you report this action to a societal and personal authority?

Could you report this activity to someone who is very important in your life and whose opinion you value greatly (a family member, you Mother for example)?

and there ya go.

And it really is as simple as that. A great shame that so few people around here seem to get it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Your statement is only correct if your assumptions are correct. Which in this case, you assumed cheating and lying.

Nope, Zev was right about the lying part. When you make a deal like this, you cannot avoid saying, either explicitly or implicitly, that "I think X is a fair price for Y" when you know that isn't a fair price at all. And that's a lie.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I always do not think the market price is fair value to be honest. The only price that MATTERS most is the eventual price which I sell the weapon at.

Let me quote an example:

If I sold a fellblade for 100k + 40ectos (market is +20e), am I lying? Am I unethical?

If you think I am, then you win the thread hands down. I lost and you can have 5 keys to the secret chests.

Malice Black · Apr 24, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So instead of helping them out in a matter that will more benefit them, you apply it in a matter that will benefit yourself?

Nonetheless you answered my question.

Of course. The number 1 rule in life: Look out for #1 (yourself)

I donanted my time to this community by moderating, doing PC's, writting various guides in the PC forum, answering trade questions etc

What did I get for that time? f*ck all besides constant grief, so don't go out making me look the bad guy. I've done more then my fair share compared to most of you.

Loviatar · Apr 24, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

AFTER ALL THE PAGES OF EXCUSES AND JUSTIFICATION MODS INCLUDED A REMINDER IN WHAT THE EXACT TITLE OF THIS CESS PIT THREAD.

Is it okay to buy expensive items for cheap from noobs?

NOOBS? KNOWN UNINFORMED SUCKER FOR THE GREEDY.

but this is goldwars guru not the game and i like the new gold site adds that keep popping up now in the banner

Ctb · Apr 24, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Ok I get ya. Next time before I trade, I make sure the person know about the market price. I link them to the price guides, I intro them some PC gurus to do price checks for them. And hopefully, if he still has that item, I buy it from them for the market price. And then I go slap myself.

I should start a new guild with a tag: Your friendly babysiters [hugz]

Your comment has nothing to do with this thread, so I can only assume you've either lost interest or simply lost the argument. Either way, it would appear the discussion is, for all intents and purposes, over.

Quote:

What did I get for that time? f*ck all besides constant grief, so don't go out making me look the bad guy.

I've moderated technical forums and you get the same thing there, so I know what you mean. But, the purpose isn't to get something for yourself (although I got a $25 gift cert to Amazon at Christmas each year as a thanks for my mod duties), it's to create a better environment for other people and the community as a whole. That that doesn't happen in Guild Wars is one of the reasons the game is such trash anymore.

If you didn't want to do that, it's your own stupid fault you subjected yourself to the hassle that goes along with DONATING your time.

The same thing applies to this subject: it's for the benefit of the overall system. If more people were a little more helpful maybe 90% of the people playing anymore would be doing something useful and fun instead of standing around spamming "LF PLVL 4 FREE NO NOBBS PLZ" and "LOL NAXI JEW PIG"

FrAnt1c² · Apr 24, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

If any of you kids has the chance of buying a 100k++ item for 5k or whatever ridiculously low amount of gold, nobody with some amount of common sense will turn that offer down, and if you do, I just feel very, very sorry for you...

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

If any of you kids has the chance of buying a 100k++ item for 5k or whatever ridiculously low amount of gold, nobody with some amount of common sense will turn that offer down, and if you do, I just feel very, very sorry for you...

They are probably thinking if it is the ethical thing to do. And by the time they realize they should just buy it, the item is gone and here they are QQ about how unethical the person who bought it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

If you didn't want to do that, it's your own stupid fault you subjected yourself to the hassle that goes along with DONATING your time.

You just proved what he has stated. Everyone can QQ except for moderators. Its their job to moderate and they cannot QQ about it. If they do, they are stupid and its their own fault that they volunteer to waste their time. Right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Your comment has nothing to do with this thread, so I can only assume you've either lost interest or simply lost the argument. Either way, it would appear the discussion is, for all intents and purposes, over.

You won the thread. All my comments have nothing to do with the thread. Its just merely some spams. Good night (or whatever time it is over there) and hope you enjoy your babysitting job.

Chaos Theory Pvp · Apr 24, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune
It is fine when the seller knows the true price and still decides to sell the items cheaply. It is wrong when the seller does not know the true price. Would you buy a black dye for 100g when the seller does not know about the true price?

I have sent more than a few 'players' to the dye trader

dunky_g · Apr 24, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

After deciding to think about this for around 10 seconds, I decided, I dont care about buying off people for cheap, they should know what there selling imo.

but really I dont care about the opinions of the people on there high horses looking to be 'hero of the newbie', just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off!

Ctb · Apr 24, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

After deciding to think about this for around 10 seconds... I dont care about the opinions of the people on there high horses looking to be 'hero of the newbie', just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off!

Yea, it's kind of obvious you only spent 10 seconds thinking. You didn't need to specify it, the immaturity and pointlessness of your post betrays it quite clearly.

Quote:

If they do, they are stupid and its their own fault that they volunteer to waste their time. Right?

It's a volunteer job. If you don't like it, don't do it. You shouldn't go into a volunteer job expecting some benefit for yourself beyond feeling good that you're not a useless lump of carbon wasting the planet's resources (although, that really applies more when you volunteer at a soup kitchen or something like that...).

Bryant Again · Apr 24, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Of course. The number 1 rule in life: Look out for #1 (yourself)

You're not even "looking out" for yourself. You don't need any of that stuff in Guild Wars. You don't need massive sums of money for a polar bear, you don't need all these high-end armors - you don't "need" anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I donanted my time to this community by moderating, doing PC's, writting various guides in the PC forum, answering trade questions etc

What did I get for that time? f*ck all besides constant grief, so don't go out making me look the bad guy. I've done more then my fair share compared to most of you.

So you've donated numerous amounts of help and effort to this website. That makes it totally fine to still "exploit" others? Some who may have good intentions, who are actually "nice" people?

Smile Like Umean It · Apr 24, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev HoaX

here is a way to find out if what you are asking is "right".

1Would you like the action to happen to you?

2Would you want everyone to repeat this action to everyone else, all the time?

3Would you report this action to a societal and personal authority?

4Could you report this activity to someone who is very important in your life and whose opinion you value greatly (a family member, you Mother for example)?

1. If I were being willfully ignorant because I was too lazy to utilize the vast amount of information available to me, then yes. I got what I asked for, I was happy with it and when I learned just how much more I could have sold it for I shrugged it off. Lesson learned, though it didn't actually bother me. I thought my invo space was worth more than the item or sell.

2. If they were being willfully ignorant because they were too lazy to utilize the vast amount of information available to them, then yes. They got what they asked for and are happy with it otherwise they wouldn't have sold it for that price in the first place.

3. No. I have yet to see how I've done anything wrong. In fact, if you pm me I'll corroborate with you in game and we'll make a trade, you report me to Anet and I'll tell you the lack of action they took against me.

4. Sure, I could, but would I? Hell no. My mother would slap me in the back of the head for being so lazy and say "I know I raised you to be smarter than that" and she has.
In context of me telling her something I did, yes I would, because I know she'd be proud that I took the initiative and effort for something that is going to help me in the long run.

I really don't understand the comparing to real life thing. Firstly, there are rules, laws and regulations so the economy isn't going to collapse. Show me where it says I'm not allowed to buy for cheap in the EULA. And who said anything about lying? I don't have to speak a word to the seller to trade with them. There was no lying done. Period. It seems that your questions are done because you think it's lying. That may be your opinion, but it is not a definite. I, in no way, shape or form, helped the seller determine his price. So, how could I lie?

As for reporting myself to the police. What am I going to report? That I bought something cheap from someone else after they gave me a pre-determined price? Also, big difference in getting banned from GW for a couple of days than getting jailed for any amount of time. A ban from GW is taking a break, being jailed is a loss of freedom.

Jenn · Apr 24, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

I don't think it's nice, but to be honest... if someone put up a q9 crystalline for 50k, 15^50, hell yes, I'd take it. I wish I could say I would take the higher road, but honestly... nah. I'd take the sword in a moment.

Selket · Apr 24, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I don't think it's nice, but to be honest... if someone put up a q9 crystalline for 50k, 15^50, hell yes, I'd take it. I wish I could say I would take the higher road, but honestly... nah. I'd take the sword in a moment.

But would you sell it or keep it?

I figure if you're planning on keeping it, it doesn't matter. Then again its pretty much their fault anyway D:

Clarissa F · Apr 24, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Look out for #1 the rule in life. Nice, Gordon Gecko. There are plenty of people in prison living that rule. GG

This isn't life, however. It's a game. If you are lying about the item's value when they ask, yeah, it might be screwed up, but what are they really going to lose out on? Fake money? They will get on in the game and gain enough experience that that kind of thing won't happen again. If it does, they are a frigging moron for not knowing better after playing the game for a good period of time.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. I'd try to help them out. At least direct them to a forum where they could get an idea, or let them see what gives on the trade chat.

As to Malice.....c'ya in Hyboria, and I'll be sure not to trade with ya!

o m g pizowned · Apr 24, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

it's a game guys....a game....nothing i do in this game carries over into real life, and if it does for you...well

Jae Onasi · Apr 24, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

One thing I'd like to point out is that some of our youngest players may not be as familiar with web research as those of us who are more 'life-experienced'. When I was a TA at Ohio State, I had to teach some of the high school grads how to research. I certainly don't expect a 12 year old to know what I know about web searching. While this is a remote possibility for our gamers, some kids may be allowed access to the game but not to the 'net by ultra-conservative parents. They might not have the same resources available to thm.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that the amount of information
needed to play this game well is just massive. I was lucky and had some friends who played the game when I bought it about 8 months back to show me the ropes, but there's so much information to master. Things like price check forums are not immediately obvious to a new player.

There is a certain truth that new people aren't likely to have the uber-rare 100k items, so the chance of getting ripped off at that level is smaller than, say, pre-searing with black dye drops. So here's the question--are you on average going to make that much more than a few plat by withholding the information about an item's worth? I'm not talking about legitimate profitable trades where you get a really good deal because the seller wants to price something low so it sells more quickly. In that situation, the person is trading off some money in return for less time spent spamming the trade channel. I'm OK with that.

In the situation where someone clearly is going to get taken advantage of, I just don't think that's fair. If there was a huge discrepency in market value vs. what the seller was asking, I might ask something like 'are you aware this might be worth a lot more than you're asking?' If they are and they want to continue the trade, then that's fine. If they need time to look it up, fine.

I haven't done a lot of in-game trades, but I have done a lot of retail in real life. If you're trying to use trade to make your gold, you have two options--take advantage of people or treat them fairly. If you treat them fairly, your chance of repeat customers goes up. Treat them poorly or take advantage, and you'll likely never see them again.

One last thing--when I get to the point where I'm trading more seriously, I'll be a lot more likely to go to someone here who's said they won't screw over newbies. I'm far less likely to buy/sell from those of you who said you'd take advantage of the situation, because I wouldn't be sure whether or not you were trying to take advantage of me, too.

dunky_g · Apr 24, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Yea, it's kind of obvious you only spent 10 seconds thinking. You didn't need to specify it, the immaturity and pointlessness of your post betrays it quite clearly.

Right, Well in the aspect of my immaturity: I think your gay.

How do you like that?

DarkGanni · Apr 24, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Its called buy low sell high. nuff said

- Ganni